Future-Proofing Your Insurance Business: The Secrets of Succession Planning with Christian Brindle

In this episode of Insurance 360, Bob and Rob are joined by special guest Christian Brindle. Christian, known for his multiple podcasts and extensive experience in the insurance industry, discusses the importance of succession planning for insurance agents. The conversation covers the necessity of incorporating your business, the process of buying and valuing books of business, and the impact of technology in the insurance space. Christian also shares insights on why young entrepreneurs should consider a career in insurance and the various dynamics involved in selling or buying a book of business. This episode is packed with valuable advice for both new and seasoned insurance agents.

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

bob: All right everybody. Welcome to another episode, insurance 360. Bob here with my good friend. Rob, what's going on? What's going on? Oh man. Friday. But it's crazy. 

rob: It's been a

bob: I feel like it's been a long week. I don't know where this week, where this week went at all.

I don't know what the hell's going on. This is just, do we ever really know? That's it. It's Friday and I don't know, another day, another, another Reagan Medicare. I'm, I'm sure. But, uh, it, it is just the way it is. But, um, we're pretty stoked today, man. We got a, a huge special guest today. Yeah. Yeah. 

rob: It's, I mean, you know what, we've been, we've been bringing 'em on, you know, I like it.

We're excited about this [00:01:00] one. And you know what the topic. Is one we hear about all the time 

bob: as well. Yeah, absolutely. We have, um, we have with us and, and, and, and I'm gonna throw this out there and I'm probably gonna miss a couple of things, but Christian, Bri. Who, if you don't know who Christian is, you probably just have not been on YouTube, you haven't been on social media, maybe living under a rock.

I, I, I mean, he's got so many different things. Um, you know, he's got like four different podcasts himself going on right now, so, so Christian, I don't know if it's a seven figure podcast. It's the, you know, the, everything's insurance services you do pretty much every day. Um, your spare time, I guess you're writing some books, um, you know, trying to help people and then I think you still sell some insurance and you, you know, when you have some time there as well.

But I appreciate you, you carving something out here for us, man. We're really excited to have you. How's your day

christian: day's doing awesome on this side, guys. Um, thank you for having me by the way. This is super exciting. Um, I'm happy to be here and excited for, you know, a [00:02:00] great conversation and, um, yeah, it's a privilege. It's a privilege to be here.

bob: Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome, man. I'm so glad you could join us today. And there's a tongue going on. I mean, you know, the way it is in our Medicare, uh, world, and it's been worse even the last couple of years. I, I mean, every time I go on social media, speaking to social media, there's something I.

Something going on where they're, you know, are they trying to cut the products? They're trying to cut the agent commissions. They're trying to make it so the agent can't market or Yeah, talk to or talk to anybody. Um, you know, we got the new disaster recovery going into effect here in a couple of weeks.

Um, there's just a ton going on, man. Are you, are you seeing anything different in your, in your world? I mean, what do you talk to so many agents and like, like us, you do a ton of training. You know, what, what are you seeing out there?

christian: Man. I mean, I think you just hit it right on the head. I mean, it is almost like a daily thing, right? Um, I believe it was either earlier this week or later last week, um, CMS drops this new a CA proposal, [00:03:00] right? And so we covered that on the podcast when it, um, maybe a day or two after drop today. Um, Dr.

Oz is going in front of the Senate to, um, about his nomination. So that's happening. My understanding, like it either is happening right now or it's happening like in the next hour or something like that. So it's just like, you know, every single day it seems like there's something going on and um, you know, I think you guys do such a good job at providing, you know, updates for agents to know kind of what's going on about this stuff, because unless you're just glued to it 24 7, it's kind of hard to keep up with for the average person.

bob: Yeah, no, you're, you're a hundred percent right. You know, we, we joke here is like we, we tried to turn. We try to turn everything we do into training, maybe making it a little bit fun and, and, and interesting.

And there's just a lot going on right now. Um, somebody said to me, he's like. You know, are you an influencer? And I said, an influencer. I'm like, Christian, what do you think of the word influencer? [00:04:00] So are I, I I almost feel like that's like putting me like at, at a Kardashian. Like, I'm not even sure. I'm think we're just, you know, we're, we're really mentors, we're trainers. We're, we're, we're really a, a lot more than just, uh, what I would think of when I hear the word influencer. What, what are your thoughts on that?

christian: Yeah, no, I think, you know, the word has come these days with such a, a, a stigma to it. Um, you know, people do think Kardashians, you know, they think the Paul Brothers, they think, you know, all these different people that they're really famous for, for being famous. They don't really do anything. Um. And you know, I think that if you look at the real definition of the word influencer, it's someone that influences others.

So in a way, you guys may be influencers, but you're a lot more than than that, right? Like I, same thing for me, right? Like, I spoke at an event last year, um, in front of like 700 agents and on my title they put Christian Brindle Insurance Influencer. And I'm like, well, I'm an [00:05:00] agency builder. I'm a trainer.

Like, I'm like, I'm like. The, the, the one word you picked for me was influencer. You know,

bob: Yeah. Yeah. No, I I, I hear you. I hear you. I didn't take it as a, as a negative, but it's just like, I feel like what we try to provide, I. Is is more than that, right? Yeah. Because to your point, there's so much going on, man. And, and then we're just talking about Medicare, but you mentioned a CA, a lot of the agents are doing more than just Medicare, so they're, they're either rolling with the a CA changes.

You got the DOL going on with, with annuity. Changes over the last year. So their agents and advisors are getting hit from all sides with tons of regs, tons of changes. It's like you gotta keep a scorecard to make sure you're being compliant half the time with what you're doing. I mean, you, you've really gotta.

You know, keep track of everything. And, and that's what we try to provide here. Which, which I know, and you were telling me you were doing, you, you do your podcast like four days a week. Um, and, and, and it [00:06:00] makes sense. I mean, you have stuff to talk about every day. I mean, you know, the changes, the updates, you know, it, it's great that you're doing that.

I mean, it just makes sense, um, for people to, to join on a daily basis these days. Influencer, that's such 

rob: a weird, i, I, you know. Did. Maybe you guys laugh at this. I almost think we're more like a crossing guard because I feel like all the time I'm saying, no, stop. Don't move. Hear me out. Okay. You can cross.

That's That's how a lot of this is going for us. You know? It's like Definitely. Exactly. I mean, I guess you're influencing it, but that's how you got CMS flying by down the street. Whoa. Hold on, hold on. Slow down. 15 miles an hour, CMS, please. You

christian: Yeah. No, and, and you know, I think, I, I think the word in itself isn't, isn't a bad thing because like, at the end of the day, like you are influencing others and, you know, providing them updates about things that are going on, but. You know, you, you're definitely a lot more than that. I'm definitely a lot more than that.

Um, you know, so it's, it's, it's like, it's funny because when people throw out the word, the first reaction [00:07:00] sometimes, Ooh, I don't want to be that. Um, but it, it in, in a sense, you know, it's not a terrible, terrible thing when you

bob: appropriate. No, I, I agree. I agree. And you know what? I think the way everybody's digesting information these days, it's really the, a YouTube world. I mean, just think about anything you try and do. Like if I need to change something plumbing wise in my house, what am I doing?

I'm going to YouTube and I'm watching a video. Todd got my garbage disposal put in. I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, I mean, that's how everybody's digesting information. Yeah. It really, it really makes a lot of sense and there's a lot of younger agents getting into this business. I mean, more than ever.

I mean, you know, not that we all wake up and say, you know, Hey, I'm selling, going to my career's, gonna be selling Medicare, but we all seem to find our, our way here, which is great. You know, so, you know, that's a, that's actually a, a a great question. So for yourself, you know, insurance and then it's like somebody [00:08:00] said, Hey, Medicare's where you should park yourself, right?

Or, or something to that effect. How'd that, how'd that evolution kind of come for you?

christian: Yeah, no, it's um, it's a great question because, you know, I've said this a million times, I'm sure you guys have as well. No one really grows up wanting to be in the insurance business that I've ever met. Um, and I'm sure there is someone out there and they're probably like, you know, the one, their exception of like the one in a thousand or one in 10,000 or something like that.

But, you know, for me, I got into the business because my, I had a parent that was in the business, so my dad was an agent for 25 years before I got in, and that's how I even knew about the space entirely. So he brought me in as a downline of his, um, kind of started my own agency. At 21. So this is year 11 for me.

So this is 11 years ago. I'm 32 now. And um, you know, he brought me in and kind of showed me the ropes a little bit. And, um, I started, you know, building my business. But he built his business in a time that [00:09:00] was way different. You know, like he built his business in the nineties, early two thousands. So he was doing a lot of door knocking.

He was doing a lot of cold calling for Medicare supplement compliance Nazis out there. Um. Um, and you know, he was doing a lot of things that you probably wouldn't do today. And so that's kind of how I got started in the business. And then after a couple years I got really good at it, but I just started thinking there's gotta be an easier way.

And that's when I really started kind of, I. You know, teaching myself, marketing, teaching myself, branding, promotion, um, you know, different ways to kind of grow my business. And, you know, our, my business grew. Um, we grew to a really big size and then about three years ago, we bought his agency. So he could retire.

Um,

rob: That's

christian: that was like our big first big agency purchase at the time. Um, but yeah, no, I got into it like a lot of people, you know, second generation, they had a parent into the business. It seems like a lot of younger people. That's a lot, a lot of times the trajectory because [00:10:00] you know what? 20-year-old, 21, 22, 20 3-year-old even knows about this space.

Not many.

bob: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's for young entrepreneurs. I mean, honestly, it's really a great fit. I mean, it, it gives you so much, uh, ability to just really. Grow your business as much or as little as you want to, right there. There's so many different avenues you can go in. There's so many different ways that you can, you can do things in this business, you know, product lines and, and whatever the case may be.

Um, it's really a, a, a, an avenue that, I'm not shocked when I see how many younger agents are in it now. I, and I think a big part of it is like. You, you, I mean, you know, those influencers that you know are, are putting it out there and it's making it so that it's, it's a viable option for a lot of people, right?

Yeah. Yeah. 

rob: I mean, look, and we live in a world now where, especially younger, the younger generations. They don't want the traditional nine to five. And in this insurance world we live in [00:11:00] offers that it's also very content driven. I mean, I can't tell you how much I see insurance, uh, like life insurance guys hopping on my, my for you page randomly talking about guaranteed income for life and all, and teaching people that, and it's these younger guys, you know, twenties, early thirties, right?

Yeah. Teaching people about insurance and they get tons of engagement. So you get kind of the best of both worlds. You don't have to get up and, and drive to work, and you also get to, to dish out content, which is what a lot of younger people want now.

christian: Yeah. Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more. I mean, when I got started, you know, in 2014, um, the average Medicare agent was a 59 and a half year old white guy. Um, and so you look at that today, right? Like I remember I would go to carrier meetings in my first few years. I'd go to meetings for my FMO at the time, in my first few years, and I would be sitting in a training or meeting or whatever it might be, and I would just look around into the room and it'd be a sea of.

You know, white heads, you know, people with [00:12:00] white hair, you know, just a sea of 'em. And I would be the youngest person in the room oftentimes by, you know, at least 30 years. Um, and I'd be like, this is weird. I'm like, what, what, what is this? Like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, why is there no one my age doing this?

And it's interesting now because, you know, now I'm, I'm a little older now, but also, you know, I will go to events, you know, I'm invited to talk at a lot of events. You know, we host an event, everything like that. And I will. Nowadays go to meetings and things like that. And I will see a lot of people that are in my age bracket and a lot of times they're even younger than me.

You know, they're 22, 20 to 25 or 26, 27. Um, and it's a super encouraging thing to see because our space really needs that to survive. We need a younger jet demographic to come in and take the reins and be interested. Um, because a lot of the old guard, as I like to call them, people that you know are in there.

Late sixties, seventies, maybe even eighties. They're starting to phase out. They're starting to retire. [00:13:00] Um, and we need, we need new blood. We need fresh blood to keep the space going.

bob: when you're talking about you purchased, you know, your dad's business, I mean, that's a great point. I mean, what does an agent or an agency owner do when they're looking to retire? I mean, what's the next step? Because I mean, a lot of agents and, and Christian, you can.

Tell me if you, you've heard it a lot, but a lot of the agents I don't think are really even doing succession planning at this point or really even know what that process would be. Right? You, you work, you grow the business, you grow your book. I mean, at some point you're gonna retire. Is everybody you think aware of all the different.

Rules that the carriers have on continuing to get paid that commission 

rob: Definitely not. And to who? 

bob: Right? Where, what, you know, when does that make sense to sell the book versus, you know, to, to just continue to certify and get paid, you know, to it's, it's something I I think that really gotta, we gotta bring some more attention to.

Well, it's a morbid 

rob: [00:14:00] thing, right? Yeah. You know, a lot of times you don't wanna think about retiring because whatcha gonna do. A lot of times you don't wanna think about life insurance because. What you don't wanna think about death. Right, right. But thi this planning is really important and I think a lot of people don't understand what's at liberty by not doing succession planning.

i360-audio: Yeah,

christian: Yeah, no, I, I, I completely agree with that. And, you know, I think the average agent is not super aware on the specifics of succession planning and kind of how that all works. Um, you know, and they really should be, because, you know, as you, as you guys accurately kind of pointed out there. You know, it's, it can be pretty problematic if you don't have any kind of success succession plan.

Maybe you don't want to even sell your business. Maybe that's not your ambition, or maybe that's way down the road for you. Um, maybe you're even a younger person. But the thing about it is like retiring. Yes. Selling your book one day. Yes. But what if something unexpected happens? Like let's say you die, is God forbid, right?

Um. [00:15:00] With, with the majority of carriers and a majority of policies, if you don't have your book of business set up correctly, if you're not incorporated, if you don't have everything, you know, kind of laid out in a proper way, um, a lot of those policies can become house accounts and all that work you did is just lost.

In that way and, you know, your loved ones can't be taken care of. You know, it, it's, it's, it's a problem. And, um, you know, I see it all the time. I had a situation a couple months ago, um, I had a spouse of an agent, she wasn't licensed herself. Come to me. And, um, we did a call together. Um, 'cause it was someone that I had a personal relationship with and, um, her husband had passed away. He didn't do any type of succession plan. It was totally like unexpected. He was a younger guy, right in his like late thirties, early forties, and you know, there was nothing set up. There was no corporation, nothing like that. She's like, what do I do to retain this business? I'm like, for the most part, there's [00:16:00] not probably a lot you can do, you know, at this point it's a little bit too late now.

Um. And yeah, it's just those situations are tragic. You know? It's almost like someone passing away without life insurance, you know what I mean? Like you have no protection, no safety blanket, and a lot of agents, they're just not aware of it. I feel like.

bob: Yeah. It really, you know, and you bring up a good point, you know, have they incorporated their business right? Is. You know, is their spouse even in the business, right? Thinking about, you know, you passing away, is your spouse getting licensed? And getting certified. Right. So what's the process? And it's always a little bit, you know, like everything in this industry, the carriers are all a little bit different.

And, and the rules, some might give you a little bit of a window for after you pass away. You gotta send in your the death certificate. There's a form you have to fill out. Maybe you can get the spouse licensed and then certified. Maybe it gives 'em some time to sell. The book of business is probably the case.

'cause you know, they're not in the industry. They may, they may not wanna, [00:17:00] you know. Be in the industry. It's just a matter of kind of, uh, getting that business under them so that they can do something with it. 

i360-audio: Yeah. 

bob: Um, but these are all questions and thoughts you have to have. And to your point, it doesn't mean that you're 60 when you're thinking about these things.

Right. Uh, or 70, you know, when you're, you're now thinking about retiring. It can happen anytime. Right. And why should the, the carrier get to keep the business to be a house accountant? I mean, that's crazy to me. You worked your butt off to build this business.

christian: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. I mean, and you know, you hit it right on the head, it is gonna be a little different for from carrier to carrier. They're all gonna have their own unique processes and things they're be willing to have wiggle room on and, and maybe not so much. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for anybody that's watching this, in my opinion, I think the best way that you can protect yourself and put together that type of succession plan, this will also help you too, if you do want to sell your business at one point.

Um. Is for one, you want to get incorporated. [00:18:00] You know, you create a corporation of some kind. I'm not a corporation expert, so I'm not gonna get into like LLCs, S Corp, C Corp, anything like that. But like, you know, there's advantages, disadvantages to different ones and, but you create a corporation, right? A legal entity that's not you.

And the reason why that matters is because when, if all the business is under you as an individual, your social security number, you know, that's where you run into risks and dangers. Of them becoming house accounts, because if you're not around anymore, you know, it's, it's tricky. But a corporation, anybody can step in and take over that corporation.

You know, it can, it's, it's not just about you, right? Like

i360-audio: right?

christian: think about all types of companies, right? Like, you know, you think of big companies, you know, great examples that people might, might remember easier. Like Disney Ford, like their founders aren't around anymore. They've been dead for decades.

But those companies live on and they keep treking on and there's other people running the companies. So that's almost like how you have to look at [00:19:00] your business, I believe. And so you, you, you get incorporated, you know, if you have a spouse, it's probably good to get them licensed, put them, you know, as like a management spot.

Um, in your corporation. They're on your corporation and probably have a, have a written up specific, um. Plan of succession, if anything were to happen, you know, have, have it legally written up and everything like that. Um, and you're gonna be in really, really good shape for the unexpected that your spouse can step in and, you know, they can either, to your point, run the thing themselves.

They can just, you know, keep the cer certifications up and keep the renewals coming. Um, or they could sell it, but they have options at that point. 

bob: Yeah. So it's also interesting when, when you talk about the business and then them selling it, um, and I think this is something where, you know, it's, it's probably just not known by a lot of people. But what would, let's talk a little bit about the, if we could the, the process.

christian: yeah, of [00:20:00] course.

bob: I've got a hundred clients.

I've got 500 clients, whatever it is, what's my business worth? Right. It it, is it a med sub that I have business, I have PDPs, I've got, so there's gonna be some type of lifetime value assigned to each of these policy holders in some way. Right. Somebody's gonna do that, you know? So when you did that for, like when you've purchased books of business and whatnot, how does that sort of go?

christian: Yeah, no, it's, it's a great question. And, you know, over the years, you know, we've bought in all different types of books of business sizes, right? We've bought smaller ones, 10, 20 to 50, 60, 70 clients at a time, um, all the way up to 700 to a thousand clients at a time. Um, last year in 2024, we acquired, we did three different acquisitions and we bought 900 clients over the course of that year.

So not, not factoring in any business that we wrote. That was new business. These are, these are just clients that we acquired through acquisition, and one thing I've learned over [00:21:00] the course of time is typically there's two different types of people that wants to sell their book of business. 'cause everybody, when they hear the term selling their business, a lot of agents get the idea in their head of like.

A private equity purchase, right? Or like an integrity or an AmeriLife purchase, something like that, right? Where they're coming in, there's these crazy multiples on ebitda, everything like that. Um, and for the most part, unless you are an agency, that is a huge scale, um, usually those groups for one aren't gonna wanna buy your business in that same way.

Two, they're not buying just your book. That's where agents I feel like need to get the, the difference really established. Clearly. You know, there's a difference between selling your book, which is your clients for selling your business.

i360-audio: business.

christian: And so selling your business is selling everything, the brand, the corporation, um, all of your data.

Your employees now [00:22:00] work for the new owner. And you, you know, you as the owner, you, they, they keep you on to run this thing. A lot of times when they're doing these big payouts, they're doing it because you agree to stay on for a certain period of time and, um, run the show, steer the ship as, as they say.

And that's value to them. 'cause they don't wanna run it. They don't wanna, they, and if they, they find someone else to run it, they're not gonna be as qualified or uniquely, um. Knowledgeable about the businesses you are, it's your creation, so there's a lot more value in that. I say that to say there's a lot more value in companies that are buying businesses in that way, and so sometimes they can get these huge multiples.

If someone's just looking to sell their book a business, oftentimes it's two different parties. Number one, it's an agent that has been doing this for a little while. Maybe they've been doing it a couple years. And they just haven't gotten any traction. They want to get outta the business. They're like, I tried.

This isn't for me. Whatever the case might be, I wanna get outta the business and, you know, I don't wanna do my [00:23:00] certifications anymore or anything like that. So they might wanna sell their business. These are like the 10, 20, 50, 60, 70, a hundred client base ranges. Um, then you have agents that are older and they wanna retire.

Maybe they're in their, you know, mid to late sixties, seventies, maybe even beyond that. Um, and maybe they don't have children. See some of these guys, they'll have children where they've kind of groomed their child to come in and, you know, kind of take over the business. Um, in my father's situation, you know, he did have a child, but like, we did things so differently, you know, 'cause a lot of times parents will bring in their kids as an LOA.

And the island's, like one day the other, you know, the kid will take it over. That wasn't the case. I was independent day one. Um, and it worked out great for me. But I think, I think my dad was nervous at the time I was 21. I was knucklehead. I think he was afraid I'd come in and do something dumb and

bob: I think we all are at that at

christian: Yeah. Yeah. And so, but, um, you know, maybe they, maybe, maybe it's someone that [00:24:00] wants to get outta the business. They're, they wanna retire and they don't have kids. They don't have kids that can step in. Um, and maybe they have 500 clients. Like we're working on a deal right now that's 480 clients. That's exactly the situation.

Dude is in his seventies, doesn't have any successors or anything like that, and he's just tired and wants to be done. Um, so to answer your question directly on that, like how do you determine the worth of that? Well, there's a couple different factors, right? Like looking at a book, there's a couple metrics that I always look at when I'm trying to determine as a buyer what I would want to pay for it.

Number one, average age of the client. Because if it's a younger average age, the clients are probably more likely to stay around longer. If it's an older age, you have mortality to think about. Um, two average age of the policy. That's really important because, um, especially on the MedSup side, because as you guys know, commissions drop for MedSup in a lot of states, in a lot of situations with a lot of carriers [00:25:00] after six years with a lot of carriers, they just completely go away after 10.

Right. Um, so I want to know about that. I want to know the breakdown of, you know, Medicare Advantage versus Medicare supplement. What other policies do they have? How many policies on average are attached to each client? Do they have. You know, dental, vision, hearing policies in the mix, hospital indemnity policies in the mix, cancer policies, et cetera.

Um, and,

i360-audio: and,

christian: you know, what, what carriers are we dealing with, right? That might sound like something that maybe you wouldn't think about, but I don't, in my opinion, if I'm buying a client, not all carriers are created equal for me. Right? Um, and so these are the things I'm gonna be looking at. Um, and I think it also depends on your business model.

Like if you're looking to buy a book of business. It kind of depends on your business model. Are you local? Are you doing business all over the country? What is your business model? For us, we're national. We're licensed in 45 states, but we concentrate the majority of our internal book of business [00:26:00] in Utah where we, where, where we're located.

Um, because we know the market really well, it's just easier for us to maintain. So I will value a client in Utah. More than I'll value a client in Florida or North Carolina or Texas or anything like that. Primarily because we know the market here better. Um, we know the plans here better and we're just at a sizable, greater advantage to be able to service that client.

So all of those things kind of factor in, in together. Um, me personally, as a buyer, I usually always start at a two x multiple of annual commissions. So what I mean by that is what, whatever someone's annual commissions are, um. Times it by two, and that would be the payout. Now, you know, maybe for a certain book we, you know, it's justified to go a little higher.

Maybe we can go two and a half, maybe three. Um, maybe, maybe the person is willing to let us stretch the payments out over time. Maybe we don't have to pay it all as a lump sum. Maybe that's worth a higher multiple for us if we can stretch it out over time. Um, maybe it's a book of business that I really just don't want.[00:27:00] 

Maybe like, I look at this, I'm like, oh, this is terrible. I don't really want that. Which we've had before.

bob: For

christian: And maybe I'm only willing to pay one X for that, or one and a half x for that. So at the end of the day, right, it's, it's almost kind of like buying a house, you know? Like

bob: like

christian: there's a house, maybe you're buying a rental property or something like that.

You might go in and you're like, Ooh, this house, it's a fixer upper, but if I can low ball. I can get it for a certain price. Maybe it's worth it. Maybe I can still fix it up. Any kinda thing like that. But maybe if it's overpriced, I'm like, no, not gonna happen. Right. It's kind of like a case by case situation, but we always us, we usually start at that two x multiple and then we'll go up or down from there based on the, the qualities of the book.

bob: Yeah. No, that makes a, makes sense. That makes a ton of sense. And, and just thinking about that, probably if they aren't local, you have to think about persistency. Right. And then you're looking at, you know.

Are, am I gonna have some kind of attrition on this, this [00:28:00] block of business? 'cause I'm, I'm just not gonna be able to, you know, visit these people as often or communication wise. I mean, once you buy that book, is it, is it just. You're reaching out to everybody at this point. I mean, there's, you're sending out notification, Hey, just to give you a heads up, you know, I'm, you know, we're taking over as your, your agent of record, whatever it may be.

There's a letter that gets sent out. So probably the communication. Do you try and meet with them all in person? I guess depends on the, the size of the book, whether that's even feasible. Right. You know, how, how, how much contact can you have there? Um, so that, that all factors in, which just makes a lot of sense.

I mean, you know, you've done over the phone stuff. I mean Yeah. It's, it's different. Well, 

rob: I'd imagine you, you gotta lose, like when you buy a book, I'm sure you gotta lose, there's gotta be a number. Right. Was it, you know, maybe 5% or 10% just drop off because they don't wanna deal with you. Right. I'd imagine there's some sort of like small number there and I mean, I'd imagine you probably can't save everybody, right?

christian: of course. Yeah. [00:29:00] No, it's, it's, I always say like you're at a sizable disadvantage with that client to start with because they did not sign up to work with you. They signed up to work with the writing agent and then all of a sudden through no choice of theirs. Their writing agent's gone. Now you're involved, they don't know you.

I do think there's some things you can do though that can increase your likelihood of keeping that client, um, exponentially. And so, like some things that we do is, for one, we get it. We, we put everything into contracts when we buy a book of business. And one thing we typically always ask the selling agent to do is to be involved with the handoff as, as they say, so.

Because the, the, the people know that agent, they trust that agent. Um, so like what we, what we typically do is we'll have the agent write up a letter. We've had situations too where the agent's like, I don't know what to write. Can you guys write it for me and slap my name on it? I'm like, we sure can. You know, you know,

bob: got done,

christian: [00:30:00] so, so we're writing, we're writing it up.

It's like, it's like, it's like this group is amazing, you know, but in it, no, and like, um, but like, we'll, we'll typically try to send a letter out. To that, that book of business to those clients from that selling agent and. It we, because it's gonna mean more coming from them than it is from us. And basically what we wanted to say is, you know, explaining why they're getting outta the business, thanking them for their business over the years, being very cordial, but then also edifying us as the group that's taking over, painting us in a very positive light for that client endorsing us, if you will.

Um, and you know, like. And we try to do everything we can to make that recognizable. Like if that agent has a logo of their own, we're gonna put the logo on the envelopes, we're gonna put the logo on the letterhead. We're gonna put our logo on both the letter on, on the letterhead as well, their logo and our logo.

So it's almost like they're seeing them together. Um, then we will email those letters out if, for all the email addresses we have, then [00:31:00] we give maybe a week or two, and then we send a letter out just from us, a follow up letter, basically introducing ourselves. Um.

i360-audio: Um,

christian: And, you know, we, we, we, we hang our hat internally from our, for our book of business and our agency on our service.

You know, I think we're known for our service. We have a book of business of multiple thousands of clients now. Um, I. And you know, we try to just, you know, our message to them really is, you know, we know you didn't sign up to work with us. We understand, but give us a chance. We think you'll be very impressed with the level of experience and service you get by working with us.

Um, and usually they are. Um, now is there some segment of people that will just leave no matter what? Certainly, but I'm trying to get that number to be as small as possible. Ideally, if I can get that being under 5%, which a lot of times we can. And it kind of varies by book, but like if I can get that at 2%, 3%, something like that, I feel great about what we just did there, but I want to avoid that at all costs [00:32:00] because you know, you paid for that book and every client that falls off, it's just less and less valuable.

bob: yeah. Yeah. It makes a ton of sense. And we talked a little bit about, you know, some of the stuff that's new in the industry and the marketing stuff, but I mean, even with. The technology. I feel like there's, we're in a technology boom in our industry. It's like you can't even like turn your head without some new CRM some new feature to add to your CRM.

I think everybody knows the word integration at this point and API feed and, and all those, I mean, we're in such, there's a lot of ways to, to really manage. That situation, making sure you're touching the people a lot, utilizing, uh, a good CRM with, with, uh, the ability to, to touch those people, um, without seeing them.

I think just staying consistently, um, in front of their faces will also cut down a lot on that. I mean, are you probably seeing, I mean, you guys, you, you guys are probably top on [00:33:00] technology as well. I mean, do a ton of that kind of stuff. Um. And it's, it's not gonna slow down anytime soon, man. My, my whole feed on, on, uh, social media is just CRMs at this point.

I, I think that's my, my whole feed. Uh, you know, so, um. Are you, do you feel as though, you know, is there a time of year where it makes more sense to do it? I mean, if it's, is it earlier in the year? Is it later in the year? Does, does it, does that even matter? Like, who cares? You know, if it's summertime, you know, you'll get ahold of less people, you know, anything like that, that, that really impacts the number at all.

christian: Yeah, no, I, I think that's, that's a great question and I, for me, there is definitely times of the year where I'd prefer to do it and opposed to not prefer to do it. Um, I, I think obviously, right, like it's not something I'd want to do during a EP, you know? Um, reason being is because I. There's so much chaos going on already with that client, and I think there's more of a chance because of all the chaos going on, they find out, all of a [00:34:00] sudden their agent's leaving.

They have a new agent. They're a lot more likely to change. It's almost like a EP is, it's like Christmas season. Even if you don't like Christmas and Christmas season is happening. There's the Christmas music going on. There's Christmas movies playing. It's in every store. It's everywhere. You look, Santa's at the mall.

You go to the mall and there he is, you know? Um. You see homeless people dressed as Santa, like all whatever, right? Everywhere you turn, there's Christmas, you just feel a little Christmasy. Aep iss kind of like that for Medicare beneficiaries. They, they feel a little bit of the urge to change, you know, revisit their plan, potentially change their plan if need be.

Um. And, you know, so you're at a, you're, you're, you're at a really big disadvantage I feel like, um, for us. Like if, if the stars aligned, it doesn't always work this way, but like if we could get it done in the first two quarters of the year, I love that timeframe. So like this one we're working on right now that I mentioned earlier, that's 480 clients.

Um, I was hoping we could get that done by the end of [00:35:00] Q1. Doesn't look like it's gonna be the case, but I feel like by the end of April I think we can have it closed and done. Um. But I feel like the closer you get to a EP, the more of a danger you're in to, to, to lose a higher percentage of those clients.

And so that's typically my rule of thumb. I mean, there's exceptions. Like I had, I've had people come to me before where, you know, they have 20 clients and it's December, first week of December, and they haven't done their search for the new year. And they're like, they're like, I just want to get out of the business. And I have to get rid of this book. You know, I'm not gonna do aip, I'm not gonna do my certs. Like, AHIP is like the boogeyman for a lot of, a lot of people. Like, you know, for me I'd be like, I'd

rob: know. Oh, we know. Oh.

christian: I just do a, if it was me, I'd just do AIP and buy myself more time. But no, like, so I've had people come to me before where they're like, you know.

It's, you know, it's the last week of a EP, whatever the case might be. You know, I need to get rid of this book, I need to get rid of it [00:36:00] fast. I don't have time to shop it. At that point, I'd be like, you know, this is not a good time of the year for us to do this. We don't really like to do this. There's a chance we lose more of the clients, that kind of thing.

Um, and so we we're gonna pay less for that just because of the time of the year. We'll do it. There's a number where we'll do it, but it's gonna be.

i360-audio: gonna be

christian: Probably, you know, less favorable for the seller. Um, it might be closer to one X. You know, I had a situation just like that where I, I, I'm like, I'm like, I'll do it for one X.

It's, 'cause I didn't really want to do it. That time of the year, it was almost like I'm throwing out like just a low ball number 'cause I don't wanna do it. And she accepted because she was, she had to, she had to get rid

bob: really wanted to get out. Yeah. She was like, I'm out.

christian: Yeah. And so, you know. There are situations where we might do it during a EP, but like it has to be something like that where it's almost like we'd be stupid not to,

bob: not to,

christian: you know, but, but preferably I'd, I'd like to do it first two quarters of the year.

bob: Yeah. [00:37:00] It makes it, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, first off, you. These days, a EP is is 10 times more hectic, I feel like, than it, than it ever has been before. Yes. With, with all the changes that are going on, I couldn't even imagine trying to integrate a couple hundred new policy holders and. Introduce yourself at the same time, trying to figure out what the best plan is is for them and meet with them or whatever the case, uh, may be.

Um, you know, and especially, you know, we talk about all the, the turmoil, but a EP is a, a huge opportunity really to. To grow business as well if you do it right, especially now. I mean, there's so much opportunity out there with all the plan changes and everything else going on. So, you know, that's just a a, a tough time to do a lot of other focus on anything.

Yeah.

christian: Yeah, you, you, you don't want the distraction for

bob: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. And as far as the other stuff, man, I just gotta think. If you're in this business, if you're a business person in general, [00:38:00] I, I'll just say it like, you gotta, you got a plan, right? You've got a plan. You know, if you're, if you're, if you're having a kid, you're planning oncology, it might be 18 years down the road, but you might open that 5 29 plan, right?

You, this is just a conversation as a business owner that's succession planning, that it's an in, it's probably an inevitable, right? One way or another, you should be having this conversation, um, today. About what the plan is, put something on paper. To your point, Christian, you can put, you know, write, write it up.

Like what is, what is the plan? Get incorporated right? Whatever it may be. And 

rob: with, with tech, I mean. Your, your life is so much easier. You can go online and incorporate online now, you know you're gonna pay a little bit more money. Right. That's what I did. I incorporated online it cost me an extra, like 250 bucks or 300 bucks.

Right. But they did all the paperwork. I just told them what I wanted, you know, and they created the LLC for me. Right. Um, and then I always recommend, and you know, if you are gonna start a business. What [00:39:00] I did, and this is what I always recommend our agents do, is create a basic LLC or a corp, right? Don't go name it.

Rob's Medicare shop. Okay? Because what happens if you sell your Medicare book, but you want to sell real estate? You know, um, my reasoning behind that is, is you can create something group or whatever, and then you could create DBAs around your group that do different things. Maybe you wanna sell real estate, maybe you wanna sell Medicare, maybe you, I don't know, you wanna make video games, whatever it is, you can do that.

And then you don't limit your base LLC, which everything's, you know, push through and you could do all of that online. And it's, it's, it's easy to do. It's not complicated. I think people get. Scared of the technology side of it. Yeah. You go online, there's, there's websites that do it. You can do something like that.

And then, you know, I, I mean, even with the, um, you know, the, the, the tech side of things, it, the cost isn't that much more. 

bob: Yeah. And it makes sense. Listen, if you, if you're really not sure, get a, get a lawyer and then yeah. Have them, have them do it for you. [00:40:00] It costs you a little bit, but if you, if you're really uncomfortable, you know, talk to somebody about it.

Right. And you can get it done. 

rob: And if you want a will done, you go online. You, you could do it for free. You don't even have to pay a lawyer. There's free will websites. Oh, true. And you could put it in your will, man. I mean, there, the, the Wild, wild West is the internet and it, you know, the internet stays undefeated, but you can get out there and you can save money and still do these things we're talking about.

Yeah. And be, you know, uh, protected. From anything crazy that could happen. Yeah. Yeah. Or time. I mean, time's, time's the ity of everybody at this 

bob: point. I, I know it's, yeah. No, you got, if it's important, you make time. Right? Yeah. That's what you gotta do. And, and this is, this is just one of those things where you should feel like it's, it's, we should be shouting it more from the rooftops.

The agents should be doing it. They don't know what they don't know a lot of times. And it, it's, it can be a process, but get through it. Yeah. Get it done. You know, you're, you're working so hard, you might as well put some time into making sure you're protecting the whole business by doing something like 

rob: this, you [00:41:00] know, and your family at the end of the day, you know, a lot of this goes back to protecting your significant others too.

You know? I mean, money's coming in. You don't want it to stop because. Then there could be issues. 

bob: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Christian, uh, it's such an important topic. I'm so glad we had some time to talk about it here today. Uh, I'm sure a lot of people will, will follow up. Uh, we have some follow up questions, uh, I'll be sure to, to get with you on that.

Um, any final words? I mean, you know, you wanna leave the agents with here? Um, as far as succession planning, buying a book of business, whatever it may be, you know, a little best practice.

christian: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll, I'll start off by saying, guys, thanks for having me on the show. This was a blast. A lot of fun. I love, you know, real insurance industry conversations like this. They're just a blast. They're my favorite thing. Um, so I appreciate you guys having me on the show. Um,

i360-audio: Yeah, man.

christian: so I would say my final thoughts, my, my partying kind of advice is like, I think there's two sides of this, I think.

If you are [00:42:00] an agent at all, you should have a succession plan laid out. It's, it's, it's not super complicated to do. Um, you know, like, like it's been said on the show, right. I. It's so easy these days to create a corporation, get incorporated, you know, get a will put into place, all of these different things.

There's so many resources you have at your fingertips and even if you don't, even if you want someone to just do it for you, you pay a little bit more. It's, in my opinion, it's worth it. 'cause it saves your time, right? Like too many people don't put a dollar amount on what their time is worth. They'll put a dollar amount on everything else, but not their time, not their own time.

Um. I would pay a fee to expedite anything pretty much. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm that guy. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like the, the, the prime, you know, uh, target customer for all of those businesses and services that like, you can pay extra, it'll be faster. I'm like, oh, fast pass. Sign me up.

bob: Disney fast

christian: yeah. Yeah. Um, but, but, so.

That's one [00:43:00] side of it. On the other side of it for, for those of you that might be interested in buying books of businesses, I think one thing I could encourage you to do is the best way to find books of businesses to purchase is to.

i360-audio: to

christian: Just be around agents, you know, going to events, going to, you know, conferences, going to local events, what, you know, going to carrier events, whatever it is, you're gonna form relationships with agents.

And some of those agents one way or another are gonna want to get outta the business. So like that's, the majority of books that we've purchased are people that we had a relationship with. You know, people that I've known a long time. Um, sometimes it's agents that. You know, are in our Facebook group or something like that.

Um, and just be on the lookout for these things because the opportunities do, um, present themselves. It, and you don't have to buy a thousand dollars or a thousand client book a business. Um, and to make it this big home run for it to really make impact. Like you could buy 25 clients and that's 25 clients you'll have in one swoop.

You know what I [00:44:00] mean? Um. Just one transaction, 25 clients you didn't have before. And you know, I always say like, you don't have to hit the home run every time to win the game. Sometimes you can hit singles and doubles and so just be on the lookout for, you know, those types of things. And you know, they are out there, they will present themselves, um, if you're paying attention and kind of looking for them.

And I think it's important to understand that, hey, this is a way I can grow my business. This is something I can do if a opportunity comes up to help me kind of leapfrog everybody else.

bob: Yeah. No, no, it makes a ton of sense, man. Yeah, no, again, couldn't appreciate your time anymore, you know, having you on here. A lot of great information. Again, I, I think it's something that's, uh. Not talked about enough, but, um, maybe we'll get the conversation going. We'll see a little bit more of it, man. But no, thank you again so much Mr.

Christian Brindle joining us here on Insurance 360 Great day. And, uh, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll be sure to follow up with you. We'll, I'm sure we'll get some [00:45:00] questions, man. Yeah, every time we do these things, we get tons of feedback from the agents, A lot of questions. And uh, uh, we'll pick your brain some more.

We'll get you 

rob: back on too. We'll get you back on.

christian: Absolutely guys. Anytime. Happy to do it.

bob: Yeah. Thank you again, man. Thanks, man. Have a great day. Have a good one.