Mastering Medicare: Tips for Navigating Advantage Plans with Jamie Sarno

In this episode of Insurance 360, hosts Bob and Rob discuss the aftermath of the Super Bowl with Jamie Sarno from AmeriLife, who is an expert on ancillary insurance products. They delve into the importance of adding supplementary insurance policies, especially during the Open Enrollment Period (OEP), to cover gaps in Medicare Advantage plans. Jamie shares his extensive background in the insurance industry and emphasizes the necessity of providing hospital indemnity plans and other ancillary policies to clients. They also discuss the benefits of dental, vision, and hearing (DVH) plans and the changing landscape of Medicare supplements. The conversation highlights the importance of making the sales process seamless and being prepared for industry changes. Jamie offers practical advice on selling and managing a strong portfolio, as well as utilizing advanced tools and competitive intelligence to aid agents in their roles.

Transcript

 All right. Welcome everybody. Another episode of insurance 360 cheers it up. There you go, Bob and Rob, another beautiful day in Philadelphia. It's one week post Superbowl. I'm still feeling the glory of it all. And he was at the parade. I decided to go to the casino. Yeah  It was still fun.

It was pretty interesting to say the least just think of it as like you and a million of your best friends In one spot just all hugging and cheering and drinking about 7 a. m That was the vibe that was going on there I saw one guy camped out at like midnight and he cooked a pig and he was sharing it with the news reporters  And they were like, this is the best thing we've ever had.

Yeah. No, it's beautiful we've been we've been going through a lot of good stuff this year and being that it's oep this is really the time of year where we feel like, listen We've gone through a P and all the Medicare stuff. You're going back and seeing a lot of people during O.

E. P. They got their policies. What should they be doing during O. E. P. Right? In my opinion, it should be add ons, right? A lot of opportunity for add on. So and we went deep in thought and said, who would be somebody that be really good to speak with you? About adding on some extra policies some of those policies to cover some of those gaps that might be in some medicare advantage plans out There and the king of ancillary as far as i'm concerned is mr Jamie Sarno down at amerolife.

So jamie, welcome to insurance 360 my man Oh, wow, bob and rob. Thank you for the invite. What an introduction. I'm loving this. Thank you. Thank you so much  Jamie's been a friend of Pinnacle for I won't say how long, but he's had probably four or five different lives in the insurance industry at this point.

Going from being somebody who ran their own agency, somebody that worked on the carrier side, somebody who's worked on the FMO side. So he's seen it all and has pretty much every perspective. So if you're an agent and you say like, how do I do this? If you're a an FMO, how do I market this?

Every aspect of it. So when we look at.  Look at all that's going on right now in the Medicare world. It seems like more that's changing than staying the same. Consistency is not something we're seeing right now. No. It's part of the reason why I love the industry.

I, I'm a tech guy and technology is the same way. And I think it always keeps us on our feet. Because you're always having to learn something new or something you're really familiar with this becomes no longer something you're familiar with. It almost like the decent market. Yeah, exactly.

So Jamie, so I think in our experience, and I'd love to get your perspective on this,  we see Medicare advantage plans, we see some of the gaps in there. And we feel like there's some obvious things that any type of all the opportunities out there for an insurance professional to really help clients.

So  what are your thoughts on that? Obviously  MedAdvantage is, it's got a lot of great stuff, but it's not perfect, right? Nothing is perfect. There's always going to be gaps if you look close enough. And, I have always followed that rule that if I feel a certain way about having a gap or exposure where I could spend my money, why would someone else not have the same, fears, so to speak?

With a Medicare Advantage plan,  Or any insurance plan for that matter. I'm always wanting to put my client in the best possible situation to where if they use their policy, I want them to come to me and say, Jamie, thank you. You did such a great job. We didn't have to pay anything. To be able to do that, you have to know where the gaps are.

And typically with a Medicare Advantage plan, they're all similar they have different co pays and different aspects that they're better or worse on. But the first. What I always say is this, the first time your client, Medicare Advantage enrollee is going to go, Wow, I can't believe I have to pay that, is if they have a stay in the hospital, where they have to pay maybe 250, 300, or 350 a day for the first five days. 

They're not expecting that, even though the agent told them, Hey, it's pay as you go, you got a maximum out of pocket, but if you do go in the hospital, you'll pay X amount. They're really never thinking about that. I  sum it up this way.  When you're finished enrolling. Your Medicare Advantage enrollee. 

They remember three things,  my insurance, I don't pay anything. It's free to me.  Number two, I get to keep my doctor and number three, my drugs are covered. Other than that, they're not thinking about the bigger copays.  I always want to make sure I take care of it. Absolutely. Yeah. So when we think about, I like to think about the process.

So I think I visually like to think about I'm sitting with the client. I'm over the phone with the client. However, I'm doing my sale and you're going through your fact finder. You're talking about it seems to me that  in that process, it really should just be part of it, right? It shouldn't be like, hey, by the way, do you also want to buy another policy?

It really should be just seamless  so that, so that you're just leading through the process. And it's and it's this policy had a little bit of gap. Remember I spoke to you about that earlier. We're gonna, we took, we have a way to take care of that. And we're just going to hit a couple extra buttons.

So what do you think about the process itself? You're exactly right. You hit it on the head. So yeah, you want to make it smooth. It's not at the end. Hey, would you like to have hospital coverage? No, one's going to want that. Yes, you have to be smooth, you have to sell it, and it has to be seamless, you, you said all those things, but that's one thing about Medicare Advantage plans, they all have a copay for the hospital, so it's not you don't need to be fearful of losing your Medicare Advantage enrollment  because you're bringing up a negative.

You're you are mentioning it through the pitch. You have a 50 if you go in the hospital,  but there's ways that we can take care of that. We'll talk about that later, just as you said. And I think when you let them know that, hey, all Medicare Advantage plans.  I'm going to make sure you're on the best one that suits you, but there is something that most people want to go along with their plan.

If they go into a hospital, that copay that I mentioned earlier, they always want to make sure they have that covered. And honestly, for about a dollar a day, we can take care of that. And you won't ever have to worry about. going in the hospital for five days and knowing 2, 000. Yeah, exactly. And I know Rob, you talk about this a lot with agents.

And all the trainings you do, a lot of the plans and Jamie, the companies are always a little bit different, but a lot of them are just guaranteed issue on these extra plans, whether it's hospital indemnity, whether you're looking at dental vision and hearing as an ancillary option. The thought process of Hey, this person has a lot of health issues. I don't think they can get this coverage that doesn't shut this down. When you look at the product, Rob, are you seeing this stuff? Yeah. And I think more now than ever, and Jamie, you can maybe back me up on this, but.

Looking at the products now compared to five years ago, I think GTL was really the only one that did that 64 and a half to 65 and a half guarantee issue. Now you have almost every carrier and you have some that even go into, I think the 79 or as well, it'd be 79 or 74. It's  something crazy, right?

That's just unheard of. So there's no excuse really at the end of the day to not be able to get your clients in something that, that they can fit in. You got it. And  you said it GTL led the way with that. And I will tell you, I would call Dimitri and say, what are you guys doing?

Are you saying  love that man? Every time we take to meet you, we got to take a shot. Here you go. 

Vine sparkling water. All right.  So  boy, was I wrong on that? Because it's been this like a space race to who can have the widest GI range. And you're exactly right. There's so many good ones, but now you can actually go using different carriers from age 60 all the way up to 79. Yeah, you tell me that.

Yeah. And we're talking about a lot of different companies and options that are out there. I know, we've been looking at the new United healthcare one, which I think the industry has just been taken off with here a little  Aetna's got 'em. Cigna's got them. So it even makes it a little bit easier sometimes, maybe you're selling a United Healthcare Advantage plan, it's still United Healthcare.

I know there's some of that goes on as well. Whatever works for the agent, right? If they'd rather have that, there's a lot of options out there. You're not going to go wrong with any of the carriers that, that we have, right? The pinnacle has it. They're all top notch and they're all going to do what they need to do.

And you're exactly right. If an agent loves GTL, by all means offer GTL, if it's a UHC, offer it. That's Wellaby offer it, but look at those GI ranges. And, I can't tell you how many times I've been in a house.  You find a buyer, you get the message across that they need it. And then it comes down and they go Oh, I forgot to give you one of my medicines.

It's on my nightstand. They run and go get it and they bring it back and you go, Oh no, they can't get any of this. So it really takes the sting out of it. You can help a lot of people.  You can be very successful with this. And I make sure that I always say this. If someone has Not good health, but they can qualify for a plan, any plan.

And this is before the GIs came out, I would let them know how important you being on this plan. Most carriers aren't going to take you for some of these things that you have never dropped this plan and they don't, they keep it. They remember those words. So when you have G. G I available. Let all your clients know at the end when everything's put away or you're hanging up that phone.

This is Jones. I'm gonna tell you this. Never drop this because most of the time you're not insurable and they understand they're not insurable. So it's a good thing. No, that makes sense. Absolutely. Now  I want to, I don't want to be remiss in talking about our good friends in the med sup world.

So Medicare supplement, I think as an industry, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going to go out and say flat, in, in general, right? I know here at Pinnacle, we're still doing a ton of the Medicare supplement. bit different of a sale,  some ancillary even oppor you don't get so many add like a dental vision and you want to take a look a 

Things to look at even if you're that meds up agent or the agent selling both of those Depending on the client. So the DVH world the companies out there are making these plans better and better five thousand out of pocket maximums They're covering things more. So in the first year than they ever had before  Yeah, someone no, but you got it Exactly so So what are you seeing in the DVH world?

Everybody seems to be coming out with better plans these days and they're guaranteed issue and you can go up to 99 from what I've seen, right? Oh, for sure. You can. And that has always been the leader, right? Because when you're aging into Medicare. One of the things you're losing and you don't realize it when you have a major medical, you got a dental plan, whether you work for a corporation or not you're losing your dental coverage.

So it's a big deal. It's a great way to get leads advertising for dental vision hearing, but letting your client that's aging in, no, you're not going to have that anymore. So we're going to make sure you have your dental. Okay, because, when I look at what I was paying, being self employed for a family plan for Blue Cross Blue Shield, 3, 600 a month,  this was two and a half years ago, with a 6, 000 deductible, so you're looking at spending 7,  50 grand before you even use that.

I should say 40 grand before you use it. And then to use it, you're getting close to 50 grand. So when you're aging into Medicare,  whether it be a Medicare supplement or Medicare Advantage, that's inexpensive compared to what's coming out of people's checks now,  because insurance isn't free even when you're working right used to be, it was all paid.

So dental vision, hearing dental, especially That is the gateway into 65 and then spreading out what are all the other products that I need because they usually turning 65. They want to know what? What do I need? They're putting everything in your hands to figure it out. And we know what they need.

They need dental.  They might need a supplement or a Medicare Advantage. They might need a cancer plan, as you said. Cancer, heart attack, stroke, maybe a short term nursing home policy. So there's so many. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We don't want to be remiss. The short term care, we've been doing a ton of training on that.

And it seems like It may be catching on that a little bit more like where to position it. How to, you're really looking at some very limited questions even to get that. And it's pretty much, can you do your ADLs and do you have a cognitive impairment?  You can answer those. You can get a policy.

Even though it's, that's Not true guaranteed issue. Typically, it is one that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people who Haven't done planning or they have an old LTC plan and maybe they have a 365 day deductible on it right an elimination. You got it. You can plug that right in it makes so much sense  And we do a lot of training on our platforms, our enrollment platforms.

So the ancillary, a lot of times are even on our Connexure platform, right? Rob, we're looking at that. Jamie Connexure. Are you seeing a lot of that being looked at that way? For sure. And I will tell you, Connexure Sunfire is on a mission to get ancillary products across the board. I know they're going to have a lot of releases over the next 30, 60 days on that. 

Yeah, I've been here and I hope, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we talked about it a little bit in the beginning. There's a lot of changes in our industry, a lot of moving parts. You never know with the government depending what happens every four years, we just hold our breath You know in our industry at this point.

I mean who the heck knows? Now's the time you got to start, you know You can't just be doing one product because that's just the I call it the road to perdition, right? It's it's  Going to be changes. It's just like how dressed that they're going to be depending on who's in charge, right?

From a statistics standpoint, too. I mean you look at It's like I forget who does the presentation on this but it's 40 with one policy 60 or 65 when you get to two and then when you get three or more it bumps all the way up to 90 or 92. Oh, yeah But it's somewhere around there.

No, you're exactly right that's a great That's a great point. And that's how you build real wealth in a great block of business because it's a solid block because, whether it be our our retirement accounts, whatever it might be everything in moderation, diversified, you want to diversify your portfolio  in yourselves because as you said, and Bob, what was it you said the other day, if you make a joke, quick, It's funny. 

I make a joke. It's a joke. If the government makes a joke, it's the law. Yeah. So you never know. Yeah. You never know. But if you, I always say, and this is probably horrible to say, but I always look at the ancillary indemnity products as the cockroach, if a nuclear bomb fell, the cockroaches are going to live no matter what happens.

Exactly. Oh, do indemnity products and persistency. If they make a, an unwise decision in Washington DC and they do something to to MA, at least all your eggs aren't in one basket. And I will tell you, one thing to look out for is this birthday rule for MedSupp. We have eight states right now that have birthday rule with another seven that are on the horizon to go into effect.

And This is something that's happening. It's not federal, but it's state and it's really hurting Medicare supplement carriers because you're buying plans if you've got guaranteed coverage So that's something to watch for.  Yeah we've been seeing more of that to your point and we've already seen some of the Effects of that.

I think you're seeing some carriers pull outta some states, you're seeing rate increases where I never saw so many double digit rate increases. Yeah. You the 5% to 6% to 2%. Now we're seeing 12 or 15 or 11 or, it seems as though we're already seeing the impact of the birthday rules in the market, which as I mentioned before, is.

Pretty much flat at this point, right? So we're definitely having things happen there. I don't know. We got to start looking at maybe high deductible G plans. I don't think they've taken off yet. But it could make sense. Carriers though, too. Obviously we use CSG when we do a lot of these things and when you're looking at and so that's that breakdown I always encourage agents to make sure that they're taking a look at what their increase history looks like.

The average doesn't always make sense, right? Cause they might've had a, nothing for three years and then they have a 12 percent increase. But that's when you look at the carriers. UnitedHealthcare, you give them a shout out on subs. They are like the industry standard, right?

Three to 5 percent and they've been that way for a long time. Now you can't hold that for some plans. Like a plan F is not going to hold a three to 5%, but on their plan G and their plan N, I think. They've done really well at holding that. They're never the cheapest, but they're also never the most expensive.

And they hold that spot every year. Since, since I started here, really, yeah, Jamie, talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I think, that's something where so many of our agents that are in the med sub world, maybe look at one or two or 3 and we'll go at some of. Go to a certain company that doesn't have that strong rate history, right?

And I think that matters because you don't want to have to keep rolling your block every three, four years, right? No, you want to set it and forget it. Honestly and you're right. Plans, all plans are agent driven when an agent believes in the product and likes the product, they will push that product.

When you look at a plan in I think a plan in is a great plan, but agents can not get over and not all of them because sales have gone up on plan in. But a lot of them are still apprehensive that it doesn't cover the excess charges. Even though  the percentage is high that you're never going to see an excess charge because they take Medicare.

And when you take Medicare, you don't get the excess charge. Same way on high deductible plans. Agents are apprehensive about that. Oh it's a couple of thousand. I want it to pay before that. If they would pitch it to their client, especially those ones that have the income that can withstand.

A couple of thousand dollars paying out of their own pocket. You're, you can get a Medicare supplement high deductible for 50, 60. Very reasonable. And it's not a rating.  Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. It makes sense. And like anything, one thing is not perfect for everybody, but there's a lot of options out there.

And I think that's what a lot of the training comes in. I know Jamie, you're going all over the country and doing trainings at agencies and do tons of webinars. And I know internally we do, we do this. The same thing. If you had a magic bullet, right? Which, what's your like final thought?

As an agent I'm out there, I'm visiting with people, I think it's about mindset sometimes, and some of those things, but what should they really look at the end of the day? That's a great question. And I will tell you it, and This has been the way I've been, and I see it out there, it's still that way, that as agents, and as for myself, I'm always going to be drawn to  the carrier, the company that makes it easy on me to make the sale, to make it easy for my client.

If they have a a mobile rate tool. That I can just pull up on my phone and calculate something just at ease. If they pay claims by, you just take a picture.  Of the bill the the EOB or whatever it might be, and you can send it right in they, and they pay well, they pay once or twice a week that they're underwriting, they're pretty consistent.

So I know if I'm writing for a certain carrier and they have certain health conditions. I know that's going to be accepted. They've made it easy on me and taught me that because they have tools like drug lists. And sometimes they'll say if the answers are no on the application, they're eligible.

I love when a carrier. Stays to their word and keeps everything level. So I don't have to guess, Oh, look, they changed something now. I'm getting declines all the time now. So I guess I'm a little off on the bullet, but I think if I could make each company. Make it easier and easier. And a lot of them are doing it.

They're really working hard to do it, but make it easier on the agent. That would go a long way. They would have everyone selling their product tomorrow. They could just make sure the agent's happy. Yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense. Now, absolutely. Now. Everyone on the call just, they probably don't talk to Jamie, but what Jamie's given is a lot of great information to us as a company a lot of what we like to call that competitive Intel.

So if anybody needs to get information, when we talk about like those different hospital indemnity plans, what guaranteed issue options are available to what ages. You want to know a little bit of a breakdown on pricing. We've got some really cool cheat sheets that I know Jamie has made available to us and he does a great job with that competitive analysis I think that's a little bit of a limiting factor.

Sometimes it's like I don't really know the market. Who should I sell? How do I sell it and what's the best option for me? So jamie, I know you've made a lot of that available for us to give out to the agent So if you're an agent you want to sell you just got to tell us  that you're interested will help you.

We'll get the information to you. We'll make it as easy as possible to your point to do business. And there's no reason everybody's in the Medicare world isn't doing some kind of ancillary. Yeah. And at the end of the day, all you have to do, you don't even have to be a master at the products. You just mention it.

I bet you sell 10 percent of every person. If you just ask about the hip products. Yes. All you do is ask. You don't have to be a master at it. If I can say one thing to that.  So my pitch, if I ever got into a home running a lead, I was always a face to face agent. I'd get in. It would be lock in they had a Medicare Advantage plan, I knew I couldn't change it,  and I would always ask this,  who'd you pick for your hospital indemnity plan to go along with your Humana or your UnitedHealthcare?

And they would go I didn't pick one. I go, you didn't pick one.  And they go, oh my gosh, was I supposed to? I go, yes,  and here's why. And then that would open up everything and just ask.  I love that. I love that  new leads. You're already in the home. Everyone's trying to find all these new leads. These new sales be made in the houses you're already in Whether they have a medicare advantage or not, whether they're existing client or not This is just another opportunity, if you can get this policy in there this year Maybe next year is the medicare advantage sale for you, right?

There's just an opportunity down the road for you one foot in the door. You're dipping your toe If you don't go back to your client, I guarantee you someone else is going to stumble into that house Even if they love you as an agent,  someone's going to get through and they can change everything.

Get yours out of there and put theirs in. Don't let it happen. Yeah, no, great point. Great point. I'm going to leave it on that point because I think that's as good as it gets. Make sure you're doing it. Helps your clients. Helps you persistency lead generation easy to do business e enrollments guaranteed issue.

What did I miss? Just you sold me. I'm ready. I'm ready to go time to do it  All right, man, I really appreciate I know took a couple minutes out of your busy day here today so much for imparting some wisdom on here  Rob and I on on our show here today. And maybe we'll look forward and next time there's an update we'll have you back on.

I'd love it guys. Keep up the great work. No, thank you again. Appreciate it. Take care.